We're still uploading pics to our Flickr site. If there are any boats you would particularly like us to take photos of and post, let me know on stewart_campbell@ipcmedia.com, or just reply below. I can't guarantee we'll get everything, but we'll do our best.
The Marlow is being mentioned in a lot of posts.
Can you get a few shots please so I can see what everyone is raving about [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
OK, Claire has just come back from the Marlow. Unfortunataly they are not happy letting any more people on the boat to take photos. We will get some exterior shots up shortly, and go looking for the Faroe. We'll have another go tomorrow.
Just to explim why entry on the Marlow is by appointment - they really do take about an hour to do justice to the features on the boat and want those looking to have unhindered viewing.
Even mags are turned down and have to make an appointment outside client hours because they want to provide a detailed inspection. The detail and thought in that boat does blow your socks off and they just want to do justice to that.
I am going to post a video and a pile of still shots in a video montage.
The video will be of the SIbs boat - I have to edit it. so that will take some hours hence it will be Wednesday before I can post it. I will put a voice over with it to explain what you are looking at.
Stewart
Make an appointment to go on the marlow at 9 am before the show is open to the public that is when they shows the mags. During the day they are giving priority to clients. You will get a fantastic tour.
Thanks Paul. That sounds like the best way of going about it. One of the roving MBM team will get to the boat before the gates open and get the full tour. From what I've seen, it looks like an incredible boat. Congratulations.
I wonder if you would be understanding if it were Fairline/Princess etc taking that attitude.
Personally I can't see the point in taking a boat to a boatshow if you are then going to stop people looking around it, might as well just stand there with a few brochures and hand them out. Bizarre treatment of potential customers that will have done more damage than good IMHO.
Unless of course the Marlow Salespeople have such finely tuned sales knowledge that they can spot and select the really serious buyers. So at an hour an appointment and the show being open for eight hours a day for nine days, I make that 72 people able to "enjoy" a look around this boat.
What a shoddy, arrogant and pompous way to treat the Boatshow public who had paid to visit the show.
MedDreamer
I can partly see your point. Anyone can make an appointment at the show but I already know of one serious buyer being turned away and they did not make an appointment to come back. So I am not saying that have it right.
I saw one chap who asked could he see it now and as there was no clash the answer was yes he could - he was given the full tour without any sales pressure.
Its also a customer's boat - not their boat and so they have to operate to an agreement with the owner. Their own boat will be here next Spring.
As a balancing factor they are very keen to show the many features - and in truth there are almost too many - so that anyone who does see her understands the depth of design and depth of quality.
If it was me, I would have been a bit more liberal. In fact I stood there with Major Catastrophe and was not in a position to invite him on the boat. I did not want to offend anyone.
I know that MBY editor tried to get on and was told to make an appointment for 9 am which he did - he spent 1.75 hours on board and so departed with a pretty cleatr initial impression - i think that policy is right.
I agree with MedDreamer on this. Very poor behaviour.
Boat shows are not private viewings. They are public events designed to give a large number of people a taste of what they are looking at. Hour long tours should be conducted privately. Can't see the point of even having the boat there for the benefit of a handful of people.
[ QUOTE ]
They are public events designed to give a large number of people a taste of what they are looking at.
[/ QUOTE ]True, in theory. In practice, from the builders viewpoint, they are just a substantial expense, acceptable only as long as there is a return in terms of boats sold, either immediately or afterwards, either directly or indirectly.
And this applies to ANY builder - but of course there are different approaches.
When you're selling a 25' cuddy, you're targetting hundreds of potential customers.
Most (if not all) of them are willing to consider either your boat or many others as well.
The more you'll get to look at your boat, the better the chances to sell.
And it just takes minutes for each visit anyway.
A million+ quid boat is in a different league, particularly if it's a rather peculiar one, as in this case.
The number of your prospect customers is a fraction of the previous ones.
Most of them, if really interested in your boat, would never switch to another one just because it takes time to arrange the visit, also because there aren't so many other boats suiting their wishes, anyhow.
And your chances to sell are pretty much connected to the time and attention spent during the visit, hence making it impossible to host more than a certain number of visitors.
They're probably aware that many people will perceive the approach as arrogant, but they know as well that (most likely) such people would have been timewasters anyway.
I'm not saying that's fair towards anyone who paid the entrance ticket, but let's face it, what would you have done if you were in their boots?
I've spent 4 days out of the last week at boat shows - 2 at Cannes and 2 at SIBS. At both shows I was able to look at every single boat I wanted to without an appointment. The longest I waited was 5 minutes.
Yesterday I placed an order at SIBS. It is subject to sea-trial but the first time I set foot on this boat was last Friday. No appointment was required then or yesterday. I was introduced to members of the design team, technical staff and detailed photographs of the layout in sold boats were produced within minutes.
I agree, that's how business should be done.
On the other hand, I'd be even slightly concerned about a builder with such attitude.
Sounds similar to this strategy...?
PS: ooops! Believe it or not, I was posting this before reading your reply below. Nothing personal against SS and/or their boats, honest!
Not sure where that came from. I (and others) were only told that one model was sold out for next year - the Manhattan 70. Maybe others were but I could have had a Predator 62 in April.
I'm sure nobody actually wants large numbers of people on their boats, but all the other manufacturers seem to manage it OK. If Marlow are seriously committed to the UK then they should have made the boat more available.
I had absolutely no problem at all looking at Riva and Pershing models costing 5 times the price at Cannes. Furthermore if we hadn't been allowed to set foot on the Princess 42 at SIBS 2003 we wouldn't be boating today.
__________________
In my opinion, not the opinion of Yachting Monthly or IPC media
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We rang Explorer in Wales before the show. We explained our interest and asked for an invite to view the Marlow and received one through the post. We weren't told to turn up at a certain time, or told anything about a queuing system.
Anticipating a delight, we left the Marlow to last. We spent the day looking at every boat we were interested in, being welcomed onto each one immediately and given a generous amount of sales time, including being invited a) to see boats being built and view every single model in the range at an event at the factory b) to go to Poole and take a day out on a demo boat to see whether SWMBO was happy with the close quarters handling.
Manufacturers and dealers can only show a limited number of models, we appreciate that. So often we look at say, the 43 when we are interested in a 48, or at a 435 when we can afford a 385, that is just the way it is at Shows. You get a really good intuitive feel for the nature of the organisation, its people and the products.
Turning up to be told "Let me see, I can fit you in eventually, just as if you didn't have an invitation" was disappointing, but to be honest, no more than that. I wouldn't buy a Marlow this year, but we will buy that level of boat in 2 years time. Will I walk away and ignore Marlow in future? No, I guess not, but Van Der Valk is much higher on my list of people to do business with as we speak because of our experience at the show. Isn't boat buying a surprisingly emotional thing!
Outside of our situation, I agree with a few others, if you don't want the public to look at the boat, don't take it to a show where the public have to pay to get in. If the owner says "No public on board" say "Ah, sadly then we can't take it to a public show". Simple matter of principle.
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't boat buying a surprisingly emotional thing!
[/ QUOTE ]
It sure is, here's a small example.
We had a really good day yesterday and were welcomed onto every boat we wanted to see. However I did have two encounters with salespeople I have bought boats from in the past that just reminded me what a mixed industry this is.
Firstly we went to the Fairline stand and met up with the salesman from Fairline North Mallorca. as we speak regularly he is aware that I am unlikely to be changing my boat in the near future. Nevertheless he gave us a lot of time and also spent a lot of time discussing various issus with us. Great service.
Later on we were on the Sealine stand and "bumped into" the Salesmen who sold me my boat before last, not naming names but we were based on a large lake in the north of England at the time. He could barely bring himself to speak and mid conversation he decided to find someone else to talk to, not even saying bye as we slinked off. What an ignorant [--word removed--]. He knows I have a Sealine and I was looking at bigger Sealines, how did he know I wasn't a potential buyer.
The end result a diminished opinion of the Sealine brand and an enhanced view of Fairline service. A purely emotional verdict I admit but I know who I would talk to first if I was changing boats
What do you mean exactly by having no problem?
I got to know how Ferretti Group salesmen used to be trained, and unless they recently changed their selling strategies, I can not believe that you popped up at Riva, asking "may I have a look at that 68' of yours?" and they immediately welcomed you on board.
Not without making you an x-ray examination first, at least.
Now, I know nobody from Marlow, but I would bet that they aren't less kind or willing to help than Riva, Pershing, Sunseeker and the likes. They're maybe a bit less sophisticated...
Besides, those big builders know very well that their products are nowadays impulse goods - sort of - whilst Marlow or similar products aren't (well, to a much lesser extent anyway).
That makes also a big difference:
Captain in his previous post says that Marlow approach was disappointing, but even if he recognizes the importance of these emotions, at the end of the day he would not ignore Marlow in the future.
On the other hand, you could have never been boating, depending on that Princess salesman at SIBS four years ago...
Each to their own, of course.
The only point I'm trying to make is that for what I read of this story, I still can't understand what else should Marlow have done, given the circumstances.
Oh good grief, it's not all that puzzling izzit? The Marlow outfit could have set aside 2 or 3 hours each day as an "Open House". Everybody crowd on board and have a happy look around. The serious shoppers who wanted the deluxe treatment could then simply avoid the Open House hours.
Now if the wishes of the owner of the boat would not allow for this, then I agree with the others. The boat should not have been presented at a public show in the first place.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure nobody actually wants large numbers of people on their boats, but all the other manufacturers seem to manage it OK. If Marlow are seriously committed to the UK then they should have made the boat more available.
I had absolutely no problem at all looking at Riva and Pershing models costing 5 times the price at Cannes. Furthermore if we hadn't been allowed to set foot on the Princess 42 at SIBS 2003 we wouldn't be boating today.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is so true I never found problems boarding any boat in many shows up to Mega Yachts
I think if Marlows had some problems from the owner they should have made a courtesy stand with some brochures and models
I know the appearance of a boat always adds up to sales, but if people cant visit it, it will do more harm then good
I also agree that detail visits should be made away from the show or at a seperate time
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Predator 72. Sea-trial is booked for next week [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool boat. Congratulations, here's to a good sea trial!
Don't forget to check to see if the tender fits in the garage! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
[ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
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Mercury XR10 10Hp 2 stroke outboard with gear select and throttle in the twist grip! Black, good looking engine & lightly used. Real beauty!
A friend has a Pair of Bezenzoni Telescopic davits 90Kg (big ones) for Fairline Targa or Phantom. PM for details.
[ QUOTE ]
Now if the wishes of the owner of the boat would not allow for this, then I agree with the others. The boat should not have been presented at a public show in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]C'mon, is this really what you'd have done if you were in their boots, missing completely the opportunity to show the boat to any prospect?...
Why not?
Anyone can go up there and make an appointment. They will not be subjected to any high sales presssure and will be given a proper tour - they even have a cat engineer on board to show you the engine room etc.
If there is nobody there when you arrive they will normally give you the tour then.
The basis of what they are doing is trying to properly show the boat whilst respecting their agreement with the owner.
You according to the Marlow people are more important than the press - hence the press can only make appointments outside public hours so that the exposure to the public is maximised.
Sorry Paul but I think your opinion is being swayed by loyalty to the brand and the dealer who you clearly have a lot of time for.
It is a Boatshow where people pay to look around boats, mostly ones they cannot afford. Only a small percentage of those who visit will actually buy a boat at the show and even then usually after a sea trial and a detailed look around back at the Dealers base, so there is absolutely no need to restrict viewing to those who have one to one and a half hours to spare for a detailed tour. For those that do want that then the staff are available (I bet Magnum spent more than 20 minutes on the Sunseeker stand). However, most paying punters just want to look around nice boats.
The dealers approach was totally wrong and naive. On a photo on another post you can see the notice on the Transom gate that starts with the word WARNING. Cor how customer friendly is that.
Nope they have got it wrong, not a very good start to their new dealership IMHO.
Just spoken to a lovey lady at Marlow at 9:30 this morning, who politely said "Sorry, we"re no longer allowing people on to take photographs on board"
So that's that, no offer of an appointment, or a chance to get a nice 360ŗ panorama inside for everone to see what they are missing.
Shame really, but it's their boat that can choose, who views and who doesn't....We're just trying to give you guys n girls the best coverage of the show and the boats, it's dissapointing that Marlow won't grant us access.
btw it's the first time in 8 years of photographing boats at various shows world wide when this has happened to me (inc the likes of Feretti, Benetti, Mangusta, Azimut, Sunseeker et al)....I've been turned away when it's busy, and allowed back, which is understandable, but when I was waiting in the rain for longer than it would take to do a 360 shot, it's all a bit strange
But this is what she looked like on the way to the show....
They can't stop me taking those!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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In my opinion, not the opinion of Yachting Monthly or IPC media
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Photographing for Yachting Monthly since 1999 My yachting photography
[ QUOTE ]
If it was me, I would have been a bit more liberal. In fact I stood there with Major Catastrophe and was not in a position to invite him on the boat. I did not want to offend anyone.
[/ QUOTE ] And I didn't ask as that would have been incredibly rude of me to put you in a potentially embarrassing position. My jokes about the young lady on the gangplank were mainly to liven up a story, but she WAS very efficient in turning away other people. She didn't turn me away, because I never asked her to go on board.
There is a very fine line between a potential buyer and a rubbernecker and Marlow had to make a policy and generally stick to it especially, as you have pointed out, Marlow like to give indvidual prospects the full tour. However, gossip is the lifeblood of the industry and allowing more people to have a look aboard must be worth more than a page of journalistic **** (I am a journalist myself and I know I write a lot of ****!). So two 'Golden Hours' a day would be a good idea to allow other peope to have a brief tour. After all, if they stick to the policy of only allowing good prospects with an appointment on board, why attend a public show with all the additional expense?
[ QUOTE ]
No doubt the flashgun was fading the fabric.
They have quite a bit to learn about PR don't they.
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The 360 degree system I've got doesn't use flash...and I couldn't possibly pass judgement about their PR education [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
In my opinion, not the opinion of Yachting Monthly or IPC media
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Photographing for Yachting Monthly since 1999 My yachting photography
I think thats the problem - the paying public think that the ticket price should give them access to everything from the dinghies to EJ's Squeeker. The vendors however are there purely to sell boats and build brand recognition.
I fall into the camp that the vendors get to say who goes on their boats - mainly because I've been in the position where a vendor wanted to use my boat at a show and I damn well wanted some limits on access. However that was for a small manufacturer who doesn't have stock boats in general - every boat built is for a customer so thats all they can take to a show. Marlow are in the same boat so to speak - just one boat available that is a customers.
I guess if you don't like that policy, then you won't be buying their boats, or possibly avoiding the shows too.
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats the problem - the paying public think that the ticket price should give them access to everything from the dinghies to EJ's Squeeker. The vendors however are there purely to sell boats and build brand recognition.
I fall into the camp that the vendors get to say who goes on their boats - mainly because I've been in the position where a vendor wanted to use my boat at a show and I damn well wanted some limits on access. However that was for a small manufacturer who doesn't have stock boats in general - every boat built is for a customer so thats all they can take to a show. Marlow are in the same boat so to speak - just one boat available that is a customers.
I guess if you don't like that policy, then you won't be buying their boats, or possibly avoiding the shows too.
Rick
[/ QUOTE ]
i think the Benettis, Bagliettos and Mangusta that I boarded in Genova, as explained by the reps where all custom builds and allready owned sold etc
still they always managed to give a poor little man like me a tour
RICK
Ask them for an appointment and take a good look at the boat. Your opinion would be interestingt.
I have no axe to grind. The fact that they have offended some people means that they need to change and improve but they simply have to respsect the views of the owner.
With my trader at LBS I asked for accompanied only viewing - no just walking on. My boat was damaged and not all that damage was reapired some 18 months later. I know that the UK Marlow people will really look after the boat and will comply with the owners wishes to the last detail. Never the less they do need to improve thier handling of the situation.
Say i am asked to show my 72 ELR at SIBS?
I would impose restrictions full stop yet I am happy to show her to any forumites when i do my round UK trip but those visits and tours will be with me - just like taking friends on board.
AT LBS I ended up with slit cushions, damaged GRP and scratches on a boat that I had not even taken delivery of at that point. I had to fight and struggle to get these fixed but never did succeed in getting it all done.
Anyone can make an appointment to see the Marlow. I think they could operate a timed thing which was accompanied but was quick tour trips and at other times full tour trips.
I do not understand the photo ban and cosnider that silly.
My video studio computer crashed last night - now in a the middle of a long CHKDSK recovery. I will post the video when its fixed.
Paul, in Major post, together with the aft pic with the notice we're talking about, there was also the following.
What was wrong with that poor windlass, to tie it up like a prisoner?...
Magnum
Explorer yacts UK - the Uk agent for Marlow are the same people as Trader Yachts Wales - they have stopped selling the Traders and gone over to the Marlow. I have no idea who introduced them to Marlow and no idea why the abandoned Trader [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
I do know that they are honest people to deal with.
I met David marlow at SIBS and asked him why the 72c was just over 80 foot and the 72 ELR was onoly 77 feet - he explained that the figures were transposed and hence my bioat is now a tad over 80 feet!!! Gets longer by the day!
So the viagra's working [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Yup, blimey! Sounds lots of fun though, hope all goes well.
Tiny point Gludy, but what's the point of big anchor overhang gizmo. And the fact that there is a longer effective overhang for the smaller anchor, on the SIBS boat? Is there some technical reason for it all? Can't figure it out
Swansea
Without the anchor bit at the front she is 77 feet and is called a 72 footer ie 72ELS. She has a beam of just over 20 foot.
I can only get through the inner lock on free flow but I will be away from there a lot of the time.
She can cruise at 9 knots with 120 hp of the third engine with a range over over 4000 miles.
With C18 (1000hp each) in her she can do 24 knots WOT and cruside at 19 knots - the bigger engine option C32.s (about 1500 hp each) could take her to about 31 knots crusie 24/25.
The anchors chosen by the owner of the boat at SIBS means that one anchor is held differntly to the other. It will nake sense when you see the video with commentory.
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But this is what she looked like on the way to the show....
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Gludy, it looked just like a bloody 'Trader' to me, I would have walked on by if I hadn't seen the name. You sure it's not made in the same Taiwan factory?
I agree with Med Dreamer on this one, if the boats on show it should be available to view by all. Key people and their own VIP's should get the full works but Jo Public should be allowed on if there's space. If the boat is sold accompanied viewing is totally acceptable.
I went on a Princess where someone had peed in the head again! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Not likely to happen if accompanied, I would have thought.
The other point which came up on the 'Ocean Deep' thread was that your boat was worth more than the company. If they can't afford a demonstrator could this be a repeat scenario? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
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Mercury XR10 10Hp 2 stroke outboard with gear select and throttle in the twist grip! Black, good looking engine & lightly used. Real beauty!
A friend has a Pair of Bezenzoni Telescopic davits 90Kg (big ones) for Fairline Targa or Phantom. PM for details.
[ QUOTE ]
The other point which came up on the 'Ocean Deep' thread was that your boat was worth more than the company. If they can't afford a demonstrator could this be a repeat scenario? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Or maybe it was a question of time? I think Paul has pointed out the long lead times on these boats - and when did the scales finally fall from the eyes of Trader Wales?
Looks nothing like a trader to me.
Marlows are built intheir own factory that they own outright. A well financed company with no borrowing. The boat is suoerb.
Explorer Uk have ordered a 70 foot demo boat being delivered about April 2008 and they are refusing to sell it - keeping it as a demo. So they can afford to do that.
I cannot speak for tTader Wales but I ask anyone to look at what happens to, it seems, all Trader dealers - they stop after a short period. So tRader wales are no different to thge other list of ex-trader dealers. try adding two an two together - you get 4 [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I think the problem for may Ex-trader dealers is clearing their stock - I know one who spent a fortune on fixing their stock boat and have reduced the price greatly but still cannot sell it.
If I had to guess about all ex-Trader dealers. the scales drop from their eys as soon as they have paid for their stock boats but they then have an extraction period that does take time. Lets face it, it took me time but I will still be stuck in it if I had not gone public. Most people would not dream of going public they way i did because it devalues their boat - in this case trader apparantly claim to have sold Ocean Deep not for just £50k more than I paid in 2005, which I thought was the figure but £96k more!!!! So maybe the advertising increased its value. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I am still owed £40,000 in 4 post dated cheques the last of which is dated 30th December 2007 - then there are the issues arising out of breach of agreement to be dealt with.
By the way, I do not think you can cure the Trader 42 acting like a submarine by simply adding a bit of skirt to the bow. Just my opinion of course.
Sorry Paul i have to agree with RogerRat, I took this pic while out on a rib, thinking it was the Marlow, only later realising it was actually a Trader.
You can have the pic if you like![img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Well I suppose I get all mixed up with those planing boats .... all look the same to me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I can however promise you that there is no other similiar feature!!!!
I have become cionditioned to react to Traders - a bit like applying an electric shock to a rat everytime the rat looked at something ... before long the look alone induces deep revulsion.
Mind you I am not sure if there has ever been an experiment where the rat applied the shock to a human but in my case that may ..... I had better not go there [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
FWIW my take on the accessibility of the Marlow Explorer at SIBS is this.
Marlow are a US company not building high volumes. The boat at SIBS may well have been the only one suitable for dispaly at the show. That boat belongs to a customer who has shelled out $3 mio.
Let's then say that that customer said to the company "you can show my boat on condition that every viewing is by appointment and accompanied."
Would you then have more respect for the company if it:
(a) followed those instructions to the letter at the risk of irritating a considerable number of people who like to wander over boats which they don't intend to buy and a few who might actually be genuine future customers; or
(b) allowed every ligger who could find his way to the pontoons to march around in hobnailed boots and then say to the owner that the damage caused was his problem.
Obviously (b) would never happen in real life and is just an exaggeration to illustrate the point. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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