Impact of Red Diesel

golden14 · #1 03-12-08, 16:37

Can anyone share the impact of the changes in duty on Red Diesel? I hear lots of complaints but I think many of us would appreciate a short story on how the changes have impacted (or not) on their boating.

sneddon · #2 03-12-08, 19:04

60/40, no real change in the price at the pump, 50p p l again would be nice though.
Effect on our boating? None.

Red · #3 05-01-09, 12:20

The effects to us are drastic. Unfortunately we had to pay the full 100% rate - using it all for propulsion. This makes it the same as auto diesel and dents the wallet.

Chris_d · #4 05-01-09, 18:39

Why are you paying for 100%, I think HMRC have made it fairly obvious that they expect everybody to declare 60/40 no questions asked?

sneddon · #5 06-01-09, 19:19

I was just about to ask the same question?

whisper · #6 07-01-09, 19:02

Well if he doesn't, for example, have a wheelhouse and/or cabin, he can't really expect to get away with declaring any percentage for heating. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

sneddon · #7 08-01-09, 09:12

Good point!
Although I thought the 60/40 would be accepted as the norm and no questions would be asked by HMRC?

whisper · #8 10-01-09, 19:14

I think we have to be relatively careful with our declarations. HMRC will not take kindly to being made fools of and blatant dishonesty, by a few, may cock it up for the rest of us.
Perhaps I'm wrong - hope so [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

sneddon · #9 11-01-09, 17:48

I guess an open rib with a diesel engine would find it hard to justify any "domestic"" usage of diesel.

sneddon · #10 11-01-09, 17:53

Just in case anyone has not yet seen this........

http://www.rya.org.uk/assets/legal/Web%2...idance_Note.pdf

Csail · #11 19-01-09, 08:03

I can't see the problem.......we put about £300 in the cars each month and maybe £100 in the boat for the year so i don't care if it goes up for boats.

Lotus_John · #12 19-01-09, 21:08

"I can't see the problem.......we put about £300 in the cars each month and maybe £100 in the boat for the year so i don't care if it goes up for boats."

My old 38' trawler i used 398 gallons at 10knots on trip from non tidal Thames to I.O.W and back =£1691 I do care that fuel has gone up. I would not care if we introduced road pricing and reduced the fuel tax which is at such a high rate to discourage use of the roads.

Andrew_Fanner · #13 20-01-09, 13:42

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see the problem.......we put about £300 in the cars each month and maybe £100 in the boat for the year so i don't care if it goes up for boats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditch the car and take the bus? It will please the greenies and you have more money for boat fuel.

Medskipper · #14 21-01-09, 20:53

You could have driven to the I.O.W. For £50. still its not such fun is it?
Barry

Lotus_John · #15 22-01-09, 11:29

"You could have driven to the I.O.W. For £50. still its not such fun is it?
Barry "
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was twice as much fun when i made the same trip 4 years ago, when the fuel at Dover was 28 PPL.

whisper · #16 23-01-09, 19:36

My local supplier has stopped selling to boat owners 'cos it's too much hassle.
He told me today he's not licenced to do so, which sounds like a load of **** to me.
Bugger - I'll have to buy more from Salcombe Barge or tell my former "Man" that my boat is now a cement mixer!!

TrueBlue · #17 24-01-09, 11:18

[ QUOTE ]
My local supplier has stopped selling to boat owners 'cos it's too much hassle.
He told me today he's not licenced to do so, which sounds like a load of **** to me.
Bugger - I'll have to buy more from Salcombe Barge or tell my former "Man" that my boat is now a cement mixer!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm - n o he's correct in that he has to register the fact that he sells (some) fuel to boats, with HMRC, but as a RDCO he's licensed to sell already.
Then keep a little bit more paperwork - but not a lot.
If he thinks retaining a lever arch file full of bumph is "a lot of hassle", then he really should not be in business at all.....

Tell him that the upside for him is that he gets to keep the extra duty collected for a WHOLE YEAR before he has to pay it over. That will improve his cash flow.

To my mind the consumer has to keep an eye on suppliers because if too many drop out not only will the price rise - lack of competition - but more and more folk will begin to fill up from cans. A pain and a pollution hazard.

halcyon · #18 24-01-09, 11:30

Falmouth fuel barge ( FOS ) gave up selling to non commercial users this week.

This is due to the new tax system, the quote in the Falmouth Packet from the terminal manager,

" after the HM Revenue and Customs introduced the new legistration it really is not worth our while supplying leisure users - it is just too much hassle for us.

When will the time come when re-fuelling is part of passage planning ?

Brian

whisper · #19 24-01-09, 16:03

"When will the time come.............passage planning"

It has been a part of our planning for a few years, due to the high cost of local suppliers. Have tried to avoid Salcombe and Dartmouth fuel barges for that very reason and have planned calls at QAB and Brixham instead.

bastonjock · #20 24-01-09, 22:34

guess you guys will be having to do what us petrol outboard jockys have to do [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

you ought to try finding a marina that sells petrol,if its too much hassle for these guys selling it from Bowsers then your stuffed.I would imagine that the proffit margine from your average yottie is not that great,if you are on average buying a 100 quid of fuel per year

what are the margins on red diesel? maybee 5 pence a liter,so up you go with your boat and tank up with 50 liters,the guys just made 2.50 and it takes him an extra 20 mins to fill in the paperwork and fill you up,businesses cant run on that sort of return,it may well be that some fuel stops will run two bowsers,one for commercial and one for leisure users.

Jerry cans and a friendly farmer is the answer [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Nickcf · #21 25-01-09, 10:15

[ QUOTE ]

what are the margins on red diesel? maybee 5 pence a liter,so up you go with your boat and tank up with 50 liters,the guys just made 2.50 and it takes him an extra 20 mins to fill in the paperwork and fill you up,businesses cant run on that sort of return,it may well be that some fuel stops will run two bowsers,one for commercial and one for leisure users.

[/ QUOTE ]

They won't need two bowsers- it's the same fuel for both! The only difference is that there is a different price for leisure users. Can't see it is that complex for fuel sellers. Who can afford to turn away customers these days? The paperwork probably takes less than 1 minute rather than 20 and the guy is there anyway. Most of the day he isn't selling anything.

sailorman · #22 01-02-09, 20:48

Hope they dont check-up on their Lordships then [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

whisper · #23 01-02-09, 21:12

Their Lordships; our elected representatives both national and local - a large proportion seem to have their snouts in the trough. Perhaps was ever thus, but we now find out about it more often.