I spent a lot of time rubbing down and cleaning up the woodwork on my Trident 24 the winter before last, then even longer applying Deks Olje as per instructions on the tin - around 80 coats IIRC. Boat looked great!
At the begining of this season there was a little yellowing in the more exposed bits. Now the whole thing is a total disaster. On all the horizontal surfaces the wretched stuff has hardened right out, gone yellow, and is flaking off and the boat has reverted to looking like a MAB.
Lots more elbow work will be needed this winter just to get back to bare wood. It is teak, but I really dislike the grey 'weathered' look and do not want to be oiling it every three weeks.
Any suggestions for a finish that actually 'does what it says' for more than 12 months? I know several people here swear by Sikkens - or what?
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Le Tonkinois works well for me. The only problem is it's hard to buy it in the UK. There is no distributor network so chandlers don't stock it and you have to pay a hefty carriage charge to get it from the sole UK agent. I stock up with it when I go to France
I spent a lot of time rubbing down and cleaning up the woodwork on my Trident 24 the winter before last, then even longer applying Deks Olje as per instructions on the tin - around 80 coats IIRC. Boat looked great!
At the begining of this season there was a little yellowing in the more exposed bits. Now the whole thing is a total disaster. On all the horizontal surfaces the wretched stuff has hardened right out, gone yellow, and is flaking off and the boat has reverted to looking like a MAB.
Lots more elbow work will be needed this winter just to get back to bare wood. It is teak, but I really dislike the grey 'weathered' look and do not want to be oiling it every three weeks.
Any suggestions for a finish that actually 'does what it says' for more than 12 months? I know several people here swear by Sikkens - or what?
thats what i found when it came on the market about 25+ yrs ago. it doesnt do wot it says on the tin
i found Dulux weathershield (pine) worked well on the teak capping of my Co32. finish not as nice as varnish @ the start of a season but looks good @ the season end & easy to repair
I have had good results this year with Sikkens Cetol. I renewed the cabin doors using teak-faced ply from Robbins. Before I made them up, I took some offcuts and treated them in various ways, all as recommended on the packaging. One got three coats of teak oil, the next got two coats of Starbrite Tropical Wax and the last got three coats of Cetol, and then half of it got an extra coat.
The test panels were left in the sun and rain in the garden for a few weeks and the resulting changes persuaded me to use four coats of Cetol on the doors. They have lasted the season well and so has the test panel, which I looked at this afternoon.
The only down-side is that it is a "soft" finish and will not take abrasion. Also it is shiny but not glossy, which I raher like, but it does not look like the usual shiny varnish. But I have a boat, not a sideboard to look after!
There are always different approaches to this problem
but the root of it is the preparation and not the product you cover it with.
Firstly, get back to bare wood ( heat gun and scrapers) and sand with P80, P150 and, finally, P220. ( 3M Frecut my preference).
Make sure surface is completely dry. Check with hygrometer to be absolutely sure.
Then you have the choice of which product to use.
If you go the single coponent route then Epifanes is the answer.
Start with a couple of back to back coats of 25% varnish 75% Epifanes Thinner. Do not use cheap white spirit...false economy when you find contaminants.
When dry sand with P220 and apply 2 coats of 50/50.
Then sand and apply however many coats you want of 95% varnish.
If, like me, you are in the Med then you might consider using Rustol
as a flow agent instead ıof Epifanes Thinner.
To get a "concourse" finish then apply at least 15 coats.
For areas of high abrasion then there is an epoxy solution:
Sicomin Wood Impreg is a clear, epoxy primer that has enough flexibility
in it to deal with scarf lines/glue joints.
4 coats of this ( no sanding required after first 2 coats) followed
by 5 coats of Seatop PU360UVR (polyurethane varnish) will give a similar depth as the Epifanes regime above but also fantastic coat strength
making it patriculaly suitable for spars and cap rails.
Bite the bullet and do it right first time, your maintenance costs afterwards will be much less.
If you look at the cost over a 5 year period you will actually save money.
My Vote goes to Sikkens Ceetol.
Easy to use.
Doesn't flake or chip like varnish and water doesn't creep under the surface.
3/4 coats will last several seasons, and only require a rub down and another coat after that.
It is not bright and shiny like well applied varnish, but I like finish.
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Take it back to bare wood and use Sikkens Novatech/Novatop with a light tint in the top coat. Defintely the best "bright" finish after 30 years of of trying all the others
Deks Olje worked well for me. I started using it about 18+ years ago on exterior woodwork on my Southerly 95 (not much, only tiller, slatted doors & surrounding frame). Huge improvement over varnish and after 5-6 years it looked pretty much same at end of season as it did at the start. Much less hassle than varnish.
I think it's supposed to soak in and not look like varnish but after many years it built up to look like varnish (never needed to sand much let alone take back to bare wood each year). Perhaps your wood wasn't cleaned sufficiently initially, had some other treatment or it may just be that mine had an unusually easy life.
Mistroma is 29 years old and you can find pictures of the tiller & doors on Mistroma.com under Gallery, Misc. April 2009.
Pretty good advert for Deks Olje. Anyway, hope you find a solution.
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Culture shock: Slowly getting used to >2m draft after owning a Southerly for 23 years.
Yes, for someone with little time or inclination to put in the work,
Deks Olje can be an adequate solution.
However, as a professional varnisher of 50-100' classic yachts,
I would suggest the regimes I proposed earlier offer the "nearest
to perfection" solution one can find.
Every owner is always the expert on their boat but perhaps
professional experience of many yachts has the edge.
Cheers,
Chris
I had a similar bad experience with Deks Olje many years ago, after using many layers of the base coat to soak in and then the top coat, but was applying it to a mahogany type hard wood. Went over to woodstain and this is widely used in Orkney and Shetland.
However, to be fair to Deks Olje wooden boats in Norway tend to be built of larch or similar and I have seen many nice oiled hulls over there so its perhaps a case of it only working well on the type of wood it was developed for.
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I had a similar bad experience with Deks Olje many years ago, after using many layers of the base coat to soak in and then the top coat, but was applying it to a mahogany type hard wood. Went over to woodstain and this is widely used in Orkney and Shetland.
However, to be fair to Deks Olje wooden boats in Norway tend to be built of larch or similar and I have seen many nice oiled hulls over there so its perhaps a case of it only working well on the type of wood it was developed for.
I tend to agree that there is no such thing as a perfect cover for all woods. After seeing some oiled boats from Norway on the Banff - Stavanger race I did the exterior mahogany brightwork with Deks, both No 1 and 2 with the recommended number of coats. It lasted barely a year. Since going to Le Tonkenois I haven't looked back. I normally buy from a UK distributor from his boat-jumble stall to save postage costs.
Coelan has its enthusiasts, but again much depends on the wood its used on. An acquaintance had to strip the coelan off his newly bought teak boat as water had got under the surface and the stuff was coming off in sheets. It is possible the prep. was not as rigorous as required; ie. strip to bare wood, de-oil with acetone, one coat of Coelan primer and then multiple coats of Coelan, all on the same day. That regime is far from practical.
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Hi, with Teak you either let it go gray gracefully, or begin the battle to keep its colour. Varnish (as you have found out) is a lot of work and oil is perfect for furniture but not great for decks and toe rails that are always outside. If you're going to go to the trouble to getting the timber back to bare wood, I strongly suggest you apply three of four coats of SEMCO from Onward Trading Company in Swanwick at the top of the Hamble River. This stuff is fantastic! As long as you apply it twice a year (I use a foam brush) it will keep the original Teak colour. They also do a darker version if you want a more golden colour.
Like anything it will need a bit of attention after a few years but its just a case of using their two part cleaner and starting again. NO SANDING for hours!
Does anybody have an opinion about Varnol? It is expensive but what is'nt? I find that it can be easily re-applied and does not need to be scraped or rubbed back between coats. Varnish of any kind I feel is a pain, although I accept that the more you correctly apply the less of a pain it is. Life is short enough without rubbing back old varnish. Any further advice gratefully received!
Does anybody have an opinion about Varnol? It is expensive but what is'nt? I find that it can be easily re-applied and does not need to be scraped or rubbed back between coats. Varnish of any kind I feel is a pain, although I accept that the more you correctly apply the less of a pain it is. Life is short enough without rubbing back old varnish. Any further advice gratefully received!
I tried it for 3 seasons. My findings:
It doesn't soak into hardwood in good condition
It turns a dirty looking dark grey
It has no abrasion resistance
it is supposed to be easy to apply but it isn't because it is a thin liquid and runs underneath masking tape and drips off a brush/rag
It doesn't last long before you have to re-apply it
I then tried Deks Olje which was not much better, then I tried Epiphanes traditional varnish which is very good.
Now I am trying le Tonkinois, which I like best of all, but the manufacturers don't seem to want to sell it in the UK because only one man is allowed to import it and he doesn't have a distribution network, so you can't buy it in chandleries. I have to buy it when I go to france
Nobody has yet mentioned Coelan.....which really does last up to ten years...and whats even better.....Once the wood has been prepared..you will never need to sand again...and when it finally needs to come off....score it with a Stanley knife and then peel it off in sheets. Whats more...it is a wonderful `wet look` shiny finish....I wouldn`t use anything else for outdoor woodwork. Its pricey, but when you do the maths, set against the number of applications that other finishes need,,,then it is very reasonable.
Was wondering if someone would come and mention Coelan. A year or two ago everyone was raving about it seems to have slipped out of the limelight rather.
As for my opinion, Deks olje is fine if just using the D1 part as an oil. I tend to use normal varnish over the top (rylard, cause they do our paint as well) and the finish is good enough to leave for three years.
Varnol is very good for the wood, it seals it and prevents it from drying out rapidly. However it does give rather a workboat finish so wouldn't use it to replace any varnish.
Coelan has worked well for me thus far. See picture below - the toe rail, cabin and cockpit seats done 2 seasons ago, deck and forehatch done this winter - no discernable difference between the two - absolutley no signs of any degradation so far - even on high wear areas. Downsides: expensive and hardwork - must be taken back to bare wood and then a minimum of 1mm thick coating. Not as atractive as traditional varnish in my opinion but for me the durability easily overcomes this.
Coelan has worked well for me thus far. See picture below - the toe rail, cabin and cockpit seats done 2 seasons ago, deck and forehatch done this winter - no discernable difference between the two - absolutley no signs of any degradation so far - even on high wear areas. Downsides: expensive and hardwork - must be taken back to bare wood and then a minimum of 1mm thick coating. Not as atractive as traditional varnish in my opinion but for me the durability easily overcomes this.
Lovely! thats how mine looked two years ago with Deks Olje - but now looks like made of old driftwood! But isnt it slippery when its wet? Looks as though it could turn into a skating rink.
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But isnt it slippery when its wet? Looks as though it could turn into a skating rink.
This was my worry but Coelan do say it is naturally non-slip - which I was very sceptical about. Before I applied non slip beads I wanted to try it this summer and in very wet conditions it was fine, with deckshoes, as the surface has a strange rubbery texture - despite being shiney.
Collars the mast and spar maker have just published the result of a two and half year varnish test they have carried out using a new round Sitka spar (one side UV exposed the other not).
Epifanes with Extra UV seems to have faired the best with Seajet UV close behind. The result on some of the other 6 tested were disappointing to say the least.
It is interesting that the two winners, one well known brand and the one I`ve never heard of both include Tung oil, but the then so does Blakes Classic which performed less well than their cheaper Favourite.
I have recently had dealings with Collars and found them exceptionaly helpful and very reasonable so if you need a new mast for your 100 foot Classic or a paddle for your canoe, I think you could do a lot worse. (I am not connected in any way). VITALBA.
Last edited by Vitalba; 05-11-09 at 12:08.
Reason: Sp.
Has anyone tried using just pure tung oil as opposed to linseed or teak oil? I have read that it is very good and it is not too expensive. They even sell it in our local DIY store.
Harry, I think you need to remove all timber from your boat, clean and coat the back and all faying surfaces before rebedding on buytl rubber. Untill you do that you will always have problems with damp 'coming through from behind' and blowing off any coatings.
Unless you do that I would leave it scrubbed to avoid dissapointment! ;-)
Ouch! Thanks Seanick - you will have seen the state it was in when you were aboard the other day. Certainly scrubbing back and living with the 'weathered' look would be simplest. But it has only happened on horizontal surfaces - all the vertical surfaces are as good as new. And in any case there is lots else to do - as you probably noticed!
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What wood finish?
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