The time has finally arrived to take the plunge at get my own boat. Actually it will be a joint purchase with two friends. Between us we’ve got the practical skills to cover most aspects of boat maintenance and after reading all the ‘what boat’ posts on the forums and other good advice we’ve narrowed the search down to two types – Sabre 27 and Jaguar 27. (both fin keel) Each seems to tick the boxes in terms of budget, reputation, accommodation and sailing performance. I was really keen on a long keel, folkboat type design but the accommodation is too limited for three fairly big blokes plus another crew sometimes.
We would plan to keep the boat on a swinging mooring on the Orwell to begin with, hopefully near SYH and use their winter yard facilities.
I would welcome any comments on the pro’s and con’s of these boats plus any further tips you can offer. I’ve met quite a few of you and have done most of my east coast sailing for the past couple of years as crew for Eastcoastbernie and Pyrojames.
PS. Trawled round the Orwell Marinas yesterday as most of them had a used boat show going on. I was really surprised at the manky state some people present their boats for sale in.
I do like the Halcyon and had a look at one yesterday at Woolverstone (I think). They are right at the top end of budget and would eat into the contingency fund unfortunately.
When we were looking at buying a yacht a couple of years ago we looked at a bilge keel Sabre. It had been finished with a wood panelled and boarded interior and lining which looked magnificent but needed a lot of restoration due to leaking windows. The deck moulding gelcoat had a lot of open bubbles but then it was the only boat we looked at which hadn't had the upperworks painted. As we have chidren the forecabin berths were a bit high but of course would be no problem for adults.
In the end choosing a boat is a very personaI thing and I didn't think I could live with the rounded shape of the coachroof.
I too like the look of Halcyons but sadly they don't come cheap enough.
Accomodation - it says it sleeps 6, but that is wildly optomistic. The 'double' would only accomodate two anorexic models. The fore cabin two midgets or children, or one adult. The port birth is also on the narrow side - lee cloth might be needed in a marina. Best birth is the quarter birth. Three adults is probably realistic.
The raised location of the dining area gives a good view out of the windows and the big hatch cover makes the interior feel extremely spacious. The fore hatch over the heads is another thing....
Good storage in the cockpit with big port locker that would take an inflatable, lazzarette locker and shallow rope locker to starboard.
How does she sail? I only really know my own boat, so don't feel able to make comparisions to other types. We get 5-6 knots out of her, she does tend to round up into the wind if pressed. A Catelina 27 did sail around the world - the furthest I have been is Oostende!
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Vince
Dutch chapter of the Bristol Channel Forum _/)_ twinned with the East Coast
Location: Boat in Brightlingsea, Essex. Live and work in Norfolk
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceHall
the furthest I have been is Oostende!
SO FAR!! Great things yet to come.
Patrick - you missed you chance, you could have had matching name and boat. I did advertise Flipper here.
Having changed from a moderate beam 70's 27 footer to a late 60s 'folkboat style' (Cutlass 27) with long keel I can concur there is much less internal volume. I still have half the gear off Flipper at home and no where left on Karouise to stow anything. Have been thinking of fitting a roof rack! I do have standing headroom if I lift out the cabin sole and stand on top of the ballast!
She's an Aphroidite 101 i know 32.75" but only 3.2 tons, sleeps 6, draws 1.7 metres, carbon fibre mast, she has a recent new Beta engine and is in quite good fettle.
Has been on the hard for 2 seasons so the owner may well drop his price.
Fast boat easy to sail, can race with 3, self tacking gib.
I share one with three others moored at Pin Mill, great boat and lots of fun.
She's an Aphroidite 101 i know 32.75" but only 3.2 tons, sleeps 6, draws 1.7 metres, carbon fibre mast, she has a recent new Beta engine and is in quite good fettle.
Has been on the hard for 2 seasons so the owner may well drop his price.
Fast boat easy to sail, can race with 3, self tacking gib.
I share one with three others moored at Pin Mill, great boat and lots of fun.
John
Astrid is very quick to windward, and holds her kite to a high angle too. Got involved in a kite luffing match with her about 15 years ago - and lost badly.
It is a racing boat though.
ASTRID - has been watching over Seabee all season (she is on the hard directly above my berth !)
She is starting to look very sad - and having sailed a couple of half tonners I can only imagine how exciting she must be to sail. I would imagine she is quite wet as well? Her hull looks in relatively good nick, although she would need some work fairing the finish. Big Nige said she is in need of some rigging work - but given that's his line of work?!?!
I would go for a Jag - or perhaps a Hunter or Cobra? There was a Cobra 750 for sale at Shotley with Fox's?
I do like the Halcyon and had a look at one yesterday at Woolverstone (I think). They are right at the top end of budget and would eat into the contingency fund unfortunately.
Patrick
May have done a deal on ours, but it's only a two berth plus pilot berth in saloon.
Having a depressed, don't thing the world wants me to go sailing period, never even got the bottom wet this year.
Brian
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Hope WO was looking pretty when you bimbled round SYH.
FWIW if you're thinking of taking 3 rugby player size blokes sailing at the same time plus the occasional guest, you're going to need more space than you think. Most pepole thought Limbo was a 'big' 26 footer, but I'd have been struggling with more than 3 for any length of time.
What about a centaur? I'm sure ther's someone on here who knows a bit about them
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I Started with nothing and I've still got most of it left - Seasick Steve
Yes Astrid is still there - Stood next to her while admiring Seabee. I really like the Shipman (spotted it a few weeks ago and asked Jomo to find out from Nick what she is) Way over budget though! I think Astrid would be a tad sporty for a first boat along with the costs of maintaining a much larger boat.
Vince, Jomo
Fair comment about the space on a Jaguar. Although nominally 6 berth I agree it is really 3, occassionally 4. In the first season we would sail together I imagine - to get used to the boat and later on perhaps do our own thing. Who knows Ian, I might even take my next future ex wife sailing! WO looked great although you've moved your berth? Was berthing that difficult? Did they just tell you to keep heading to the back of the marina until you crash into the corner??
The time has finally arrived to take the plunge at get my own boat. Actually it will be a joint purchase with two friends. Between us we’ve got the practical skills to cover most aspects of boat maintenance and after reading all the ‘what boat’ posts on the forums and other good advice we’ve narrowed the search down to two types – Sabre 27 and Jaguar 27. (both fin keel) Each seems to tick the boxes in terms of budget, reputation, accommodation and sailing performance. I was really keen on a long keel, folkboat type design but the accommodation is too limited for three fairly big blokes plus another crew sometimes.
Patrick
Hi Patrick
We have the twin keel Sabre 27 (since June 2008) and are very happy with her, although the fin keel version apparently sails better. The accomodation is spacious for 27' - due to 9' beam, however don't believe 6 berths, five's just possible but 4 is more comfortable, and that 'double' in the main cabin is actually a single!
Handling with just two is fine, and I've done some single handed. Max speed we've acheived is 7 kts (surfing!), but 4-5 is more normal and they're great sea kindly boats. We sailed her round from Poole last summer, and down to Chatham via the Swale this summer, strongest wind so far has been a 6, which she manages in fine with 2 reefs down and reduced genoa and found she plugged into the head sea maintaining 4+ kts close hauled (Harwich Harbour on a bad day).
Overall they seem to have a good reputation, not much talk of osmosis and very solidly built. There's quite a lot available right now so have a look at a few. However the original 12hp engine was underpowered for modern sailing, and most have been upgraded to 18-20hp now (5kts cruising speed).
Also an excellent owners association with a good website with lots of photos and boats for sale and an owners forum - I suggest you log on there - or email Paul Howard (the technical officer) who will certainly give you all the technical information you could wish for.
Sorry, not an impartial view - I'm totally biased!
WO looked great although you've moved your berth? Was berthing that difficult? Did they just tell you to keep heading to the back of the marina until you crash into the corner??
I'd like to say it was 'coz someone had nicked my berth when I stopped out for the night, but I reckon you're more accurate
Anyway, I'm tucked in next to Norfolknick at the mo, not so far to pass the beer if we happen down at the same time
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I Started with nothing and I've still got most of it left - Seasick Steve
I’ve met quite a few of you and have done most of my east coast sailing for the past couple of years as crew for Eastcoastbernie and Pyrojames.
Huh, looks like I'll have to find another crew!
Couldn't agree more about the sorry state in which many people offer their boats for sale. You might find the boat you decide to buy is the one which looks like it is in the best nick for the available budget. My advice would be don't discount anything, keep looking and eventually one will turn up that looks and feels right. You'll be very fortunate indeed if you find one that needs nothing doing to it, particularly if your budget is limited. I trawled round marinas for a whole year before I found a boat I wanted to own.
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I had a fin keel Jaguar 27 for several years and loved it. It sailed well, and we usually sailed with two or three adults. We never had a moments worry with the boat, sailed all over the Thames Estuary with trips to Holland, Belgium & France.
Faster than a Contessa 28! The only problem I had was that it sailed better on one tack than the other and it wasn't until it was sold that I noticed the keel wasn't vertical and I suspect it had been like that from new.
If you do get one, replace the shroud 'U' bolts if not already done. I checked mine and they were all suffering from crevise corrosion. Easy to replace with Wichard ones which fitted exactly - but don't let that put you off the J27.
From memory slightly more room than the Sabre 27.
There was a Jaguar 27 at SYH last weekend at the annual boat sale but I didn't look at it. PM me if you have any further questions.
Location: Boat in Brightlingsea, Essex. Live and work in Norfolk
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by M33
The only problem I had was that it sailed better on one tack than the other and it wasn't until it was sold that I noticed the keel wasn't vertical and I suspect it had been like that from new.
Sounds familiar - wasn't fiited out by the first owner by any chance?
Location: My own cosy little world where nice things happen and life is beautiful all the time
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I don't know what the budget is but if you fancy a Halcyon, there's what looks like an ex-JSSC on for sale in Wales advertised in ST. Been for sale afor a few months and I think she's down to about £8,500 now.
I suppose they are a bit cramped by todays standards but we used to have five soldiers on board for a week at a time and think nothong of it. Very, very good sea boat. I'd trust one anywhere in any sea.
I must admit, I'd go for a bilge or lift keeler first, long keel second and fin keel last on the list, round our way.
Location: Boat in Brightlingsea, Essex. Live and work in Norfolk
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow_boat
Halcyon, ex-JSSC
I suppose they are a bit cramped by todays standards but we used to have five soldiers on board for a week at a time and think nothong of it.
Used to sail those too, just in RN we went for a bit more comfort and only took 3 sailors! The Vic 34s there now are nice too.
Excellent boats. Was on my list when looking - just watch out for bunk length - a couple I looked at had bunks barely 6 foot long.
I don't know what the budget is but if you fancy a Halcyon, there's what looks like an ex-JSSC on for sale in Wales advertised in ST. Been for sale afor a few months and I think she's down to about £8,500 now.
And don't underestimate the huge disparity between 2nd hand boat prices and sale prices. I know some boats go for their asking prices but 20% less is common.
And don't underestimate the huge disparity between 2nd hand boat prices and sale prices. I know some boats go for their asking prices but 20% less is common.
When a manufacurer builds a new boat then he woks out how much he needs and says "this is price - who wants one". With a second hand boat (and cars) condition is everything. So we look at our boats and we say that this is reliable and above average (because we haven't looked at any others and we love it) and we put a price on it. Joe Public says this is just one of many which are all unknown to me and none are special and offers a lower price. Just like selling a car - when you decide it has to go then any purchaser is better than none so you take less, feel a bit aggrieved in the short term and then move on.
The ones that get their asking price are either very good examples, are or are bought by someone who doesn't look at the market or feel confident.
When a manufacurer builds a new boat then he woks out how much he needs and says "this is price - who wants one". With a second hand boat (and cars) condition is everything. So we look at our boats and we say that this is reliable and above average (because we haven't looked at any others and we love it) and we put a price on it. Joe Public says this is just one of many which are all unknown to me and none are special and offers a lower price. Just like selling a car - when you decide it has to go then any purchaser is better than none so you take less, feel a bit aggrieved in the short term and then move on.
The ones that get their asking price are either very good examples, are or are bought by someone who doesn't look at the market or feel confident.
I don't know what the budget is but if you fancy a Halcyon, there's what looks like an ex-JSSC on for sale in Wales advertised in ST. Been for sale afor a few months and I think she's down to about £8,500 now.
I suppose they are a bit cramped by todays standards but we used to have five soldiers on board for a week at a time and think nothong of it. Very, very good sea boat. I'd trust one anywhere in any sea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karouise
Used to sail those too, just in RN we went for a bit more comfort and only took 3 sailors! The Vic 34s there now are nice too.
Excellent boats. Was on my list when looking - just watch out for bunk length - a couple I looked at had bunks barely 6 foot long.
When on my Germany tour (RAF) I spent a lot of time at BKYC (British Kiel Yacht Club) which for the un-initiated, was established in Kiel as the Sailing Centre for British Forces in Germany.
They had a fleet of Contessa 28s for training courses. I remember one course that I volunteered for as a Training Skipper, they gave me 5 Guardsmen. I have to say it was a bit cramped with those burly 6 footers .... but the boat was superb for the purpose, kindly but quick enough if sailed efficaciously . A great week was had by all...
27' Yacht - which one?
.
- wasn't fiited out by the first owner by any chance?
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