I've just been reading the review of the Elan 310 in the December PBO. Clearly the review had a fun time sailing her, but something puzzles me. Here are some quotes from the review - spot the odd one out. My emphasis.
Elan's new 310 is a sporty cruiser ...
... she looks more like a scaled -down Open 60 than a performance cruiser ...
... [if you remove complicated features] there's no reason why you shouldn't have a fast, well-mannered and easy-to-sail cruiser/racer ...
... She's more comfortable and more tolerant than many ploddy, high-volume cruisers ...
... a competitively priced sports-cruiser like this ...
... the layout would work for a crew living out of kit-bags for the weekend ...
Is it just me, or does living out of a kit-bag for the weekend not quite count as cruising?
Looks like good fun in flat water. Maybe a weekend in Poole counts as cruising?
I guess you have seen the post, in the other place, with the internal details.
One expert says the Elan 36 does not forgive poor trim or helming, so I hope this one is better.
Personally I prefer a cruising boat that takes my poor trimming and helm work in it's stride.
Each to their own but I do wish the yachting press would show a bit of substance and actually report what it is sutable for. Not for me, I really do not care and am happy to be set in my ways but what about for people starting out and trying to form an opinion. It is these people who are being sold short and shame on the magazines.
Will I get deleted for that?
Well let me try harder, a lot of the reviews are done in the Solent and whilst it is a sizable yachting veneue it does not represent most of us and this approach makes me nearly give up the subscriptions!
As for the boat: If she is a good cruiser I would have liked to see two of the crew feeling tired and thristy retire from the windward side of the cockpit and go below for a cupper and a sleep. If the crew cannot do that she is not a cruiser she is either a racer or a day sailer. the bottom line is I would not want to take my young family sailing on it around the Channel Islands, but if I could afford it for me to just single hand around the Channel, it might be fun but no the thought of bashing to winward in to a five or six in the chaneel with a spring ebb under me er no thank you. So Solent sailors enjoy.
One expert says the Elan 36 does not forgive poor trim or helming, so I hope this one is better.
Personally I prefer a cruising boat that takes my poor trimming and helm work in it's stride.
Not sure which expert you are referring to, but my Elan 362 sails beautifully - fast and mostly well balanced. Sailed home one weekend singlehanded when autopilot failed, and went for an hour to windward at 5-6 knots with lashed tiller.
When in Croatia recently specifically sought out Elan 333 as much better sailer than most of the standard charter stuff.
However, Elan 333, 36 & 40 much different design brief from the Elan 310.
I've just been reading the review of the Elan 310 in the December PBO. Clearly the review had a fun time sailing her, but something puzzles me. Here are some quotes from the review - spot the odd one out. My emphasis.
Elan's new 310 is a sporty cruiser ...
... she looks more like a scaled -down Open 60 than a performance cruiser ...
... [if you remove complicated features] there's no reason why you shouldn't have a fast, well-mannered and easy-to-sail cruiser/racer ...
... She's more comfortable and more tolerant than many ploddy, high-volume cruisers ...
... a competitively priced sports-cruiser like this ...
... the layout would work for a crew living out of kit-bags for the weekend ...
Is it just me, or does living out of a kit-bag for the weekend not quite count as cruising?
perhaps cruising in this environment means three or more hairy arsed crew on a booze cruise, rather than a nuclear family of four?
I'm a bit puzzled about the OP. Whatever one might think of the boat I think the review and the photos quite clearly tell you what sort of boat it is and how it is likely to behave, and what facilities it does or does not offer
The definition of a cruiser can be almost anything from my little wee 22 ft boaty..OK for a long weekend or even a week, but not a lot more, all the way to the thing that is almost a battleship. Theres little doubt the Elan 310 will happily cruise, but there are as many different sorts of cruising as there are sailors, so if the article tells you enough to conclude that the sort of cruising the Elan offers is not for you..job done, good article.
I'm sure we've all realised by now that all these tests are 'a run round the block' with whatever wind conditions the solent dishes up on the day. I quite enjoy the tests, but don't get worked up as I can't afford any of them anyway
Whatever one might think of the boat I think the review and the photos quite clearly tell you what sort of boat it is and how it is likely to behave, and what facilities it does or does not offer
Indeed. It just seemed a little odd to me that they keep on describing the boat as a cruiser, then tell you that they reckon it would be OK for the odd weekend. It seems like a funny definition of cruising ...
Is it just me, or does living out of a kit-bag for the weekend not quite count as cruising?
its probably not just you that has a narrow minded view of what cruising is... but here is "dictionary definition" of cruising...
Code:
v.intr.
1. To sail or travel about, as for pleasure or reconnaissance.
2. ....
v.tr.
1. To travel about or journey over.
2. ....
n.
The act or an instance of cruising, especially a sea voyage for pleasure.
So, can't I sail about for a day, weekend or week for pleasure and even make a journey from A-B etc living out of a kit bag? Is that not cruising ? If the vessel I undertake that activity in is suited to that task is it not a cruiser?
its probably not just you that has a narrow minded view of what cruising is...
Let's leave the personal insults out and stick to the issues, shall we?
Quote:
So, can't I sail about for a day, weekend or week for pleasure and even make a journey from A-B etc living out of a kit bag? Is that not cruising ? If the vessel I undertake that activity in is suited to that task is it not a cruiser?
It's a matter of degree, I think, and I'm asking about this out of mild interest. A trip from Largs to Rothesay and back one Saturday seems to me to be a day sail. A trip from Largs to Cork and back one summer seems to me to be a cruise? Where's the crossover? Well, to me it's about spending periods away from the home port, so in my book to be a "cruising" yacht there has to be enough accommodation for the crew to live in reasonable comfort for period of, oh, a week or so.
Of course it's all very vague, isn't it? The Dyes undoubtedly went cruising, but it's hard to think of Wanderer as a cruiser. All I found odd in this case was that the boat was repeatedly described as a cruiser, despite the reviewer's opinion that it wasn't actually suitable for much more than camping.
Incidentally, I am informed by a usually reliable source that in the 60s various naval vessels were built which would previously have been denoted as cruisers but which were instead called destroyers. The reason was a rather odd bit of cost saving: cruisers had to have bands but destroyers didn't.
I'm not getting personal - you asked if it was just you and I'm saying its not just you thats wrong!
I recognise wayfarers as cruising, and indeed there is a whole group of people who cruise them and other dinghies. But the point is they would first and foremost be described as dinghies / open boats rather than cruisers.
How would you describe the boat in question then - what sub-genre of sailing boat do you believe it falls into?
The article obviously successfully communicated that this wasn't a luxury / comfort cruiser. So what's the problem? You seem to feel it "mis-sells" the boat - but in fact through the words you seletively quote - its quite clear that it does anything but. However from the point of view of the author he really has to describe its potential in terms of the expected use. If the builder (or the market) is viewing this boat at a cruiser then review it in that context, but highlight how it differs from other "cruisers".
How would you describe the boat in question then - what sub-genre of sailing boat do you believe it falls into?
The article obviously successfully communicated that this wasn't a luxury / comfort cruiser. So what's the problem? You seem to feel it "mis-sells" the boat - but in fact through the words you seletively quote - its quite clear that it does anything but.
Actually, I don't think it mis-sells the boat at all. As you, others and I have said, it makes the limited accommodation very clear. I was more interested in starting a conversation about what counts as "cruising" than having a go at the author.
So I think your first question is a really good one - what do we call boats like this? To me a "cruiser" is something which can be used for extended stay-aboard trips and a "racer" is something in which speed is the design priority. A "cruiser-racer" would be something suitable for both extended living aboard in reasonable comfort as well as racing.
On this new Elan, as with many modern ocean racers, the overnight accommodation is designed really only to be tolerable to those who will put up with discomfort for the sake of speedy racing - it's not really suitable for mum, dad and the two kids to spend two weeks touring Ireland in.
So I think your first question is a really good one - what do we call boats like this? To me a "cruiser" is something which can be used for extended stay-aboard trips and a "racer" is something in which speed is the design priority. A "cruiser-racer" would be something suitable for both extended living aboard in reasonable comfort as well as racing.
On this new Elan, as with many modern ocean racers, the overnight accommodation is designed really only to be tolerable to those who will put up with discomfort for the sake of speedy racing - it's not really suitable for mum, dad and the two kids to spend two weeks touring Ireland in.
Maybe you're expecting too much accommodation for your cruising.
I've cruised extensively in a boat where there was no enclosed heads and the accommodation choice was quarter berth, saloon or forepeak. She could be called nothing else but a cruiser. Seems Elan's 'cruiser' has better accommodation than that.
I met a couple with young children this summer who were cruising a 31.7 just as you describe. I can't believe that this 31 footer is any more of a handful in a F6 than a 31.7. In fact, didn't a Norwegian family take a 31.7 across the Atlantic on the ARC?
She's not a racer. Try looking at the accommodation of one of those the next time you get a chance. Delivering a purpose built racer you tend to find the most comfortable place to sleep is in the cockpit.
She looks like a pretty obvious cruiser-racer and I'd guess the majority of owners will race her round the cans with some short distance cruising, but I'm sure the right people could cruise her extensively.
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"Most races are not won; they are lost by all those who do not finish first." - Stuart H Walker, Advanced Racing Tactics
I guess the definition of "cruiser" has moved on for this next generation. For us, Moody, Westerly, earlier Bavarias etc count as cruisers having space to live in and being sea kindly, even forgiving (!) Racing boats from 20 years ago just don't count these days, so aren't "racing" any more.
Let's face it, if you still carry dacron sails, and have nylon running rigging, have a spray hood, carry no more than 4 litres of fuel and the same of water, even have full length tooth brushes - well, you're not giving yourself any chance in the racing stakes.
But magazines reviewers have always been conflicted on this distinction, always looking for performance and racing characteristics; they are all smitten by the Jeremy Clarkson bug - boys in men's trousers.
I take smug satisfaction in the indisputable fact that without us cruisers "plodding" along and funding the facilites etc, the racers would be still on the drawing board!
Cruiser?
so you mean its no good as a racer & crap as a cruiser then?
Hybrid Mode
