In a ‘soon’ issue of PBO, we shall be doing a personal review of insurance, similar to the recent report on Internet trading, to which ybw.com members made an interesting contribution to broaden our own research.
The insurance feature will be a similar project, looking at it from all sides ie insurers, loss adjustors, surveyors and especially we who pay the premiums.
If you have any serious comment, or anecdote – good or bad – which you feel should be aired to help other boat owners positively, or to avoid pitfalls, I should be grateful to learn of them, either by open forum, or by PM, or via an email address on pp2 of www.colvicwatson.co.uk. Alternatively, we can make telephone contact.
Just been shopping around for insurance for the new boat. Had a quote from an online broker, I actually, met and spoke to the guy at the SIBS, he had with him in support a big gun from Navigators & General. He naturally gave me a N&G quote. I then more recently spotted an N&G add' in YM, so phoned for a 'direct' quote, suprise suprise, N&G direct wanted nearly £100 more!!!
In the end I have gone with GJW direct, same premium, lower excess.
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"You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you"
Roger Waters 1972
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"You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you"
Roger Waters 1972
I switched back to GJW after a year (and a new boat) with HNJ. I didnt like a small print clause in the HNJ policy which implied that if a loss was due to my bad seamanship then they wouldnt pay up.
My main beef in the past has been with Insurers requiring survey & valuations at stupid intervals. At one stage GJW wanted one every three years which doubled the cost of the policy. This seems to have calmed down now but it may be because I've got a new boat.
The costs for extending the range beyond the normal Brest Elbe limits, reasonable in the past, also seem to be rising recently. The policy costs are now well above the normal 0.5% of boat value.
Only ever made one claim, from GJW, several years ago. They settled the whole claim very quickly, no fuss. Excellent
With the current boat we're with Pantaenius. Not made a claim but very pleased with their service to date. A benefit is that they include engine breakdown cover, like an extended warranty
My insurance premium was slightly less than 0.5% of the value of the boat. Interesting when you think about it - they clearly reckon that my boat wont be a total loss even if its around for 200 years. And that calculation excludes the damage I could do to others, theft, damage through small mishaps, admin of the policy and a hundred other smaller risks. I think its a good deal - and no, I dont work for the insurance industry.
I use a real traditional marine broker, rather than the on-line or "direct" ones, or Saga etc. I do this because I find when I talk to the guy that he knows what he is talking about. He's not an Indian call center. So I can get sensible answers about issues like rig life, or single handed sailing at night.
I only wish my dealings with boat builders and brokers were as positive.
<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
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this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
One thing you might consider looking at for your article, Colin, is insurers' attitudes to singlehanding. I'm not talking about ocean crossing alone, but simply wandering gently back to base after sunset. Last time I changed insurers, I found that the majority specifically excluded singlehanded use of the boat between sunset and sunrise. I'm sure a fair number of forum users will have been out uninsured without realising it!
Would agree about single-handing. Our current policy with Pantaenius permits single-handed sailing at night. Now I wouldn't let HWMBO out in charge in the dark properly on the grounds that his night vision is rubbish [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] - but especially at this time of year there's often the issue of "you get the boat back to its berth, I'll move the car". Its reassuring to know that we're insured.
The other issue which is often very poorly defined is geographic areas. No policy issues a map or chart and phone conversations with the insurers are frequently unclear. I did, however, get excellent help when discussing outline prices for the northern & southern coasts of the Med.
And the 3rd topic is transatlantic. Many insurers appear to be rigid in demanding a minimum of 3 crew. Again Pantaenius were much more flexible and said it depended on the type of boat - with ours they would be happy to have only 2 crew (hope they are true to their word when we finally get there).
No, I'm not selling Pantaenius - we also had excellent treatment from GJW when we had to make a claim - it wasn't our fault and they were prepared to pursue it as far as the courts - until the rigger and his insurers finally backed down. The only reason we left them is one raised earlier in this thread - requiring a survey after (I think) 7 years. We did consider going back to them as their quote was cheaper but the flexibility of Pantaenius's approach kept us with them. Their stated attitude is "if you care about your boat you'll keep her up to scratch".
<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
Must agree with what you say. I have stuck with Pantaenius for many years because they supply the cover I want and have never pestered me for pointless surveys ~ even on a boat well into its third decade. Brian
Very good point that.My insurance ,at one time, excluded"overnight singlehanded passages"
This seems very vague to me .What if a day passage stretched half way through the night?
Also it could encourage you to unwisely try to enter a lee shore harbour in daylight when a safer option might be to stand off or proceed somewhere else.
As I recall, "overnight" was defined as anytime between official sunset & sunrise times, which is pretty restrictive. The last time I checked, Nav&Gen and St Margaret's both refused to cover nighttime singlehanding, whilst GJW Direct insisted on having radar fitted and increased the excess to £500.
Many boatowners never read the small print of their policies, and could get a nasty shock if they realised what their insurers aren't covering.
We asked Panteanius for a quote for transAtlantic sailing at SIBS and got anice reply completely ignoring our original query. So I lied about my age and went to Saga for the interim period. Will still have to find a company to cover us for cross the pond in a year or so's time. So suggestions/magazine articles will be very welcome. Thank you Colin
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