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I've seen these advertised in this month's PBO. A brand new 33 footer can be had for £54,900 according to the ad.
I've just done a quick check, and I could get a 10 year marine mortgage for £60k with a £12k deposit. Somewhat hefty APR of 8.2% typical and monthly payments of £582.37 on a £48k loan. If I was going to buy this boat to live on, I would be able to pay this price for the boat.
Now to my questions:
1) Anyone know the Bavaria range? Are they decent boats?
2) The standard equipment says it has cold water, I believe. Would I be able to ask for the boat with both hot and cold water? And what about a shower in the heads?
3) Similar to previous, what about heating? Could I ask the manufacturer to make the boat with heating built in?
All of your requests are available as options, some being good value, others a blatant rip off. A friend ordered a Bav 30 at SIBS and has found the level of service from Opal to be superb.
In terms of what they're actually like, his description was solid - it's reasonably heavy for a modern 30', level of finish is far better than they used to be and it sailed reasonably well although in fairness the wind didn't get above 12knts.
In your circumstances, where else are you going to find a brand new 33' boat for that sort of money? Think of those lovely warranties - in my mind that adds up to trouble free sailing for 12mths on gear, 24mths on engine & 5 years on the hull. The deck gear is even top brand names. Can't go wrong really!
I'm not buying one 'cos I don't like modern production yachts, they simply don't sail well enough IMHO, so we'll be sticking with our beautiful Twister.
Location: French Canals 2007 on, Hull most of winter. previously the Humber , western Greece, western Italy and the south of France.
Posts: 1,118
Re: Bavaria 33 Cruiser
In my opinion a single person could live happily on a 25 footer but as soon as there are two of you you need three times the space. In the summer your space increases because you can sit in the sun but if you are working and have a full social life, I reckon the thirty footer you are looking at will be more than fine all year round.
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In my opinion a single person could live happily on a 25 footer but as soon as there are two of you you need three times the space. In the summer your space increases because you can sit in the sun but if you are working and have a full social life, I reckon the thirty footer you are looking at will be more than fine all year round.
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Wicked.
So, I've come across the official Bavaria page, and the optional extras page here
So, out of those things on the list, what would you guys reckon is a must on a liveaboard ship? And on a general cruising ship, too. (please separate them into living/cruising categories, if you do!)
So far, the warm water, shower in heads, and hot air heating look like a must. Though, is the hot air heater the best way to go? It seems to use diesel as fuel, is that a good choice? Or would electric be better? As for the shower in the heads, there's an optional extra outlet that goes into the holding tank. If I'm living in a marina berth, would this be a good idea? Or would it be ok for the refuse water to go into the river water?
Thanks for any advice!
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Are you sure you can live on a 33 footer? We are moving into a 36 footer and think it's only just big enough. Is there just yourself?
Pops
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Yeah, would be just myself. I think it should be big enough for me, and I should also be able to sail the thing on my own. I've heard that anything bigger gets a little tough to sail on your own.
I'm glad to see the extra bits are available as options. Hopefully they'll be at the London Boat Show, and I'll pop round to take a look at them.
Cheers for the tips, guys!
We are currently looking at the Bav 30 or Bav 33. For the money I really think it is a great deal and good value. As NAS as already said you will need to add about £10k to the price to get the boat up to spec etc.
Why not go and have a look at them at Opal and see for yourself.
Cardo,
I was at the Genoa boatshow yesterday and I was also stunned by the convenient cost of the Bavs. I was looking at a 37. Had all that I was looking for 3 double cabins. L shaped kitchen and it costs €100,000 (£70k) add on £10k for extras and it looks amazing value. The only bad thing was the anchor setup at the bow but the rest looked OK. I had a look at the Dufours, Jeanneaus, Beneteaus, Hanse..... and quite honestly in terms of cost/benefit the Bavs beat them all. Opinions of other????
BB
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Absolute certainty is a priviledge of uneducated minds and fanatics. C.J.Keyser
if you are living onboard don't forget you needs a lot moe stoage space than you think so check the BAV has enough. when I was single I lived on a SIGMA 362 and people said I was crazy but it workde for me including winters in Norway. Soon as we were two we needed more space - so we traded up to a 47 footer.
Don't tell the finance company you intend to live on the boat - they will not lend you the money. Simply arrange the finance while living ashore then tell them later about your new address........
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Temptress of Down
Southsea Marina
Portsmouth
Hants
UK
The thing is,in price, Bavs are wiping the floor with Bennys and Jennys et al,as we know, but they`re also wiping the floor with the used ones. Who`s going to pay £48000 for a 5 year old First 31.5(Yachtsnet) when he can sail away a brand spanking new Bav 33 for just a few grand more ?
Where will it all end ?
Worth a thread on its own, really.
Pete
True - Bavaria is eating into the used boat market.
Quite a few people commented on why they should pay roughly the same price for a 15 year old Etap 38 as they would now pay for new Bavaria 34.
Etap and Bavaria both build yachts, just the same as Citroen and Mercedes both make cars. Would you compare those?
My experience of Bavaria is limited to two delivery trips - I have seen enough.
Location: Boat in Algave, self in UK for the winter
Posts: 1,279
Re: Bavaria 33 Cruiser
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The thing is,in price, Bavs are wiping the floor with Bennys and Jennys et al,as we know, but they`re also wiping the floor with the used ones. Who`s going to pay £48000 for a 5 year old First 31.5(Yachtsnet) when he can sail away a brand spanking new Bav 33 for just a few grand more ?
Where will it all end ?
Worth a thread on its own, really.
Pete
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I'm not knocking the Bavs as I do think they've helped loads more people to get out on the water due to their lower pricing - however they achieve this.
But in regard to your question on why people buy a second hand First or other popular design, it is not just sailing attributes but depreciation that also needs to be considered.
I suspect you'll find in five years time, the First will sell for close to what you bought it for. And that will possibly be more than the five year younger Bav.
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if you are living onboard don't forget you needs a lot moe stoage space than you think so check the BAV has enough. when I was single I lived on a SIGMA 362 and people said I was crazy but it workde for me including winters in Norway. Soon as we were two we needed more space - so we traded up to a 47 footer.
Don't tell the finance company you intend to live on the boat - they will not lend you the money. Simply arrange the finance while living ashore then tell them later about your new address........
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The Bavaria looks like it has quite a bit of storage space. I can see drawers and lockers everywhere in those pictures. Looking forward to seeing the real thing at the LBS.
As for finance, that's cool, I'll officially be moving in with a friend of mine, and "temporarily" crashing at the boat, with a mail redirect to the marina. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
While getting some repaire done this summer near Oban I asked the engineer which boats would you avoid as you must have a good idea ,as you repair them
R .Bavaria,Hanse
q.What would you recommend,
R. Much as I personaly dont like their style ,Moody are good quality
Bavarias seem to have a reasonable name up here in Scotland. SWMBO and I personally didn't like them because of the interior finish and layout, although they seem to sail as well as any other tupperware boat. Mine is also Tupperware, a Legend, although more expensive it is much more comfortable for living on, if still not the best sailing boat in the world. The Bav is about a ton lighter than the Legend (36's) but I couldn't say where our extra weight is.
Like us, if you buy her you will have to be a bit careful of the weather when you go out, but frankly no matter what boat you have you probably don't want to be uncomfortable so plan to stay put when there's any mention of f7 or 8.
Despite all the dyed in the wool heavy boat merchants going on about flat bottoms and light weight, you don't see many of them out on the Clyde when the wind picks up. Best of luck
I did a delivery trip on a Bav 34 in May 2004 (Gosport to Coruna).
I was surprised by how little storage space there was for a boat of her size.Far less than on my old, much smaller Liz 31. However, there is an excellent wine locker in the saloon table!!
The owners had bought her new and soon had a variety of problems, the most significant being with the steering gear, which had to go back repeatedly to Opal under the warranty, and they were far from satisfied with the service they received.
By two years old the joinery was already working loose from where it had been glassed into the hull and squeaked loudly at the slightest movement of the boat, making it impossible to sleep in the aft cabin, even in a flat calm anchorage.
The macerator pump for the holding tank had failed for the third time.
In terms of sailing, she was relatively fast in light winds and calm conditions, was great down wind even in a force 8 approaching Coruna, but was best with poled out headsail only.
Going upwind she slammed horribly in any sort of swell, which on occasion caused considerable delay to our progress. A couple in a Rival 34 were able to make much faster passages than us and had more stowage. They had been living aboard for over a year and planned to continue doing so until their money or their health ran out!!!
re liveaboard space. The owners were taking her down to the Med as part of a year out. For just the two of them it was fine for the year, and in no way did they adopt a mininimalist approach to their home comforts.
They sourced a lot of their gear from online chandleries in the USA, which even after paying shipping and import duties, they felt gave them significant savings.
Their two most valued purchases were a Magma gas fired kettle barbeque and a very clever plastic folding dish drying rack, both sourced from www.defenderUS.com
Having been on an impromptu charter in New Zealand on an old 'heavy' boat they have decided that their next boat will be of the 'heavy' variety. They sold the Bav34 at the end of their year out
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Location: My own cosy little world where nice things happen and life is beautiful all the time
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Re: Bavaria 33 Cruiser
You'll find that single handed sailing is easy on any size boat (within reason) Size is only a problem in the confines of a marina. I assume you won't be living in a marina so no problem there.
For that kind of money (or even half that) you could easily get a really well presented boat already adapted for live aboard with a decent inventory that won't depreciate quicker than a Virgin rail sandwich.
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You'll find that single handed sailing is easy on any size boat (within reason) Size is only a problem in the confines of a marina. I assume you won't be living in a marina so no problem there.
For that kind of money (or even half that) you could easily get a really well presented boat already adapted for live aboard with a decent inventory that won't depreciate quicker than a Virgin rail sandwich.
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I do plan to live in a marina, actually! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
To be honest, I have been looking at the older boats, and there do seem to be some magnificent, well kitted out boats out there. When I can afford this baby, I'll certainly be looking at the second hand market.
Seems I just missed You in Genoa (wensday oct.12). I was there to evaluate my next 39/40 footer (Oceanis, Cyclades, Hanse, X-Yachts, Elan and Bavaria).
Oceanis 393 unfortunatly was not on show, contrary to wat I was assured when taking R.V. before the visit
Cyclades 393 LOOKS very economical and has a lower Confort Ratio.
Hanse 400 had a very poor coachroof gelcoat finish, a weird /dangerous anchor place and not usable windlass place; nice interior though.
X40 very nice, engineered for racing and, therefore, expensive.
Elan (40 and Impression 384) good boats, not particularly expendive or cheap; problem seems to be the contract a buyer has to enter in, with the agent and not the maker, but this is common also to the others.
Bavaria has a good quality for the price, many things seem to have been thought before.It has a lot of small lockers inside that miss on other boats. The italian dealer seems profesional and serious.
All this, of course, IMHO.
A general consideration is the rip off for electronics: prices quoted for OEM (for all and any of the above mentioned makes) are at least twice those at "Raydirect.co.uk"(see my tread on PBO forum), so whatever I'll buy, I'll implement with the electronics (including through hull sensor): this can add to some 10.000 € difference )VHF DSC, Tridata, Chart Plotter, Radar, Autopilot) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
Heating is a bit different, as the installation of the appropriate ducting (especially if air) can probably best be done at the yard.
I was also a bit disappointed with the 393, the Jeanneaus looked very plain (and sturdy), didn't like the Hanse nav cum coffee table (even if the 29 was cute in green), and I prefer L kitchens and facing settees. In the end the only ones where the Dufour 34 (nice but a bit tight) and the Bav 37 which would need upgradeing but is cheap. In terms of substance the bavs don't seem IMHO to be missing anything, but maybe the build quality is a result of the "automation" so you could get squeaky furniture! The comments about keels falling off has become a joke! Most of my boaty friends here, in Italy now consider a 40' min for a cruiser, I'd like to be able to single hand but the opinion is 37 or 40 is the same deal, but I do have some reserves. Which boats did you like?
Can you save that much by post sales fittings!?! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] What do reccomend as factory and what later? I would be interested to share your thoughts.
BB
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Absolute certainty is a priviledge of uneducated minds and fanatics. C.J.Keyser
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A marine Mortgage should be available for less than that.
I am paying 2% above FHBR with Bank of Scotland Marine, which equates to appx 6.9% apr.
We all haggle on the boats, but forget to haggle on the money as well. 2% over is what you should aim for, though they will start at 3%+ over.....
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Oh, no doubt. The rate I quoted was just the one I saw online for a quick online quote. I used it as an example of the maximum I'd be paying. And if I can afford that, I can afford a more realistic rate! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
I really wouldn't have a Bav. Haven't looked at them for a year or two... maybe they've improved. But the last time I looked, the finish was poor, poor, poor.
As an example...and only an example... look at the inside of the heads door. A veneered finish. How long is that going to take water from the shower before is starts delaminating? Not long, I'll bet.
And that's just a small quick example. There are others. Just compare the chroming on a Bav to that on a Moody. The Moody's much thicker.
And the price.... it's just too low. OK, they'll be making savings on quantity... but not so much as allows them to keep the quality of materials up.
No... they're disposable boats in my opinion... Made mainly for the charter market I suspect. Five or ten years and then throw them away... if you can find anyone to take 'em!
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I really wouldn't have a Bav. Haven't looked at them for a year or two... maybe they've improved. But the last time I looked, the finish was poor, poor, poor.
As an example...and only an example... look at the inside of the heads door. A veneered finish. How long is that going to take water from the shower before is starts delaminating? Not long, I'll bet.
And that's just a small quick example. There are others. Just compare the chroming on a Bav to that on a Moody. The Moody's much thicker.
And the price.... it's just too low. OK, they'll be making savings on quantity... but not so much as allows them to keep the quality of materials up.
No... they're disposable boats in my opinion... Made mainly for the charter market I suspect. Five or ten years and then throw them away... if you can find anyone to take 'em!
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For the purpose of debate, what do you see as the significant differences between the Bav and your Beneteau?
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Cruisers don't have plans, just intentions
Erm... the finish?
Don't get me wrong. I know the benny is not as good as a Moody or the like.. but I couldn't afford a Moody of the age I wanted, with the accomodation I wanted ..and all the other compromises you have to make.
have seen all Bavaria range and we own Bavaria 40 Ocean since 2003, sailed 6000 miles in Med. Great value for the money. We are sorry that Bavaria discontinued central cockpit models in 2003. When we decide for larger boat we will have to go for other builder.
It is a good decision to buy BAV 33 Cruiser. I did it 4 years ago. I f you decide to buy - some proposals:
- buy from Bav only additional what will be complicated later to install as BAV prices are cca 30% higher.
-dont buy Anchor and chain as you will pay genuine and receive fake
-dont forget order holding tank as it is question of time when it will be necessary everywhere
- hot water and shower is clever to order from BAV
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How come these people get the boats so cheap? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I could get the boat with all the extras I'd like for about the same price as the basic price of the boat from Opalmarine.
Watch Opal carefully. In my limited experience they don't care about you once they have your money. After sales support is at best slow and grudging and to the letter of their guarantees. Info available by PM.
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Watch Opal carefully. In my limited experience they don't care about you once they have your money. After sales support is at best slow and grudging and to the letter of their guarantees. Info available by PM.
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So would I be ok buying from any company that imports the boats? I don't need to buy from some official importer?
Pops,
Good point. How does bavaria guarantee work, I've never had a new boat. Is it like a car where it's covered pan-euro (in theory). What's the service level agreement!!!
If anybody knows please post, looking at these prices I'm thinking of getting her spanking new too. b37 new exvat (i think this can be arranged) with all opts. <100k € .
BB
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Absolute certainty is a priviledge of uneducated minds and fanatics. C.J.Keyser
I dont know about specific Bav guarantees, mines a Legend. I would just advise caution and makes absolutely sure you agree in writing, with a copy to you, of everything you ask for on your boat. When things start to go wrong, which they INEVITABLY do on a new boat of any make, then be prepared for a SLOWWWWW response. The more problems you have, the slower they seem to get. I am not a satisfied customer, but not enough case to make a proper complaint.
Just be micro-specific and get your bu££[--word removed--] detector switched on from day one!
Have you looked at what you can get secondhand? have a look at Opals web site & you could get a lot more for your dosh if you go back a couple of years. The boats will be equiped with all the goodies as well.
Or how about a real boat, say a nice late 80s Moody, some really nice examples in your price range again with heating H&C water Good sails etc.
Are you going to stay in a marina? if so you have to look at the costs, around 3 to 5k depending on location for a 33 footer.
Have you looked at what you can get secondhand? have a look at Opals web site & you could get a lot more for your dosh if you go back a couple of years. The boats will be equiped with all the goodies as well.
Or how about a real boat, say a nice late 80s Moody, some really nice examples in your price range again with heating H&C water Good sails etc.
Are you going to stay in a marina? if so you have to look at the costs, around 3 to 5k depending on location for a 33 footer.
poter
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I'm one of those suckers that likes buying new stuff. If I really couldn't afford a new boat, then sure, I'd get myself a second hand one. But if I can afford a decent new boat, then I prefer to do that. When I buy things to keep long term, I like to have them from new so that I know exactly what the item's been through, what it's had done to it, etc. Problem with second hand stuff is you never know what it's been through and you could end up with a serious can of worms.
And yeah, plan is to stay at one of the marinas in London, as I'm intending to live on the boat. Some of the marinas aren't too expensive, eg. South Dock, which is around £2300 or so for a 33 footer for a year.
Couple of thoughts, perhaps personal views but something to think about:
1) Differentiation; do you really want to own a boat that looks just like the next, and the next and the next. Increasingly the all too familiar shiny white with navy, trimmed with the usual navy sprayhood and lazy jacks - popular yes, but don't you want a boat that looks just a bit different, esp. if its to be your home?
2) Insulation - are Bavs really suitable for year round living, refer to sleeping arrangements re. hull linings?
3) Keels - sorry, but I walked around and beneath latest Bav models just recently - oh, my gawd - I thought I was walking beneath a load of racing machines juding by the keels. Perhaps I'm a bit of a traditionalist but sorry, solid cruising keels they certainly weren't [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
Before you part with your cash, have a serious look around the second harnd market. Yes there certainly are plenty 'manky old boats', but ever now and again you may be pleasantly surprised and find a gem - like I did [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Good luck
Lesley
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Bavaria 33 Cruiser
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